Cheryl Baker, 55, shot to fame in 1981 as part of four-piece pop sensation Bucks Fizz who won the Eurovision Song Contest with Making Your Mind Up.

Her bubbly personality saw her move into TV work and she was a regular presenter on the small screen throughout the 1990s.

In recent years she has been more associated with highlighting issues that have touched her, such as IVF, hair loss and C.diff, while also becoming heavily involved in the local theatrical scene.

Cheryl lives in Ightham with her husband Steve Stroud, who plays bass for Cliff Richard, and their twin daughters, Kyla and Natalie.

IR: You and Gloria Hunniford are the main two celebrities within the Sevenoaks area. How does it feel being part of that local formidable celebrity duo?

CB: Oh, well I think Gloria is fantastic and should be on telly more, come to that I think I should be as well (laughs), but unfortunately both of us suffer from that same ailment, age, but she's fabulous, she's a great girl, she's a great woman and what she went through with Caron was every parent's nightmare and yet she's dealt with it in such a positive way and to turn something so terribly negative into something so absolutely positive is tremendous. I've got a lot of admiration for Gloria plus she's bloody good at her job. She's a very, very good presenter, both on radio and on television, but she's beautiful you know. Some people like Adrian Chiles I watch him on the One Show and I think 'why are you on telly? You've got a face for radio' whereas Gloria's beautiful you know, she's got such a beautiful face and no matter what age she is she's attractive to watch and she's got a lovely lilt to her voice. As you can hear I'm a big Gloria fan I think she should be more in the public eye than she is.

IR: So why is it, and we will touch on this a bit more later on, but why is it that people such as Gloria and yourself aren't on TV whereas people with faces for radio, such as Mr Chiles, are on TV?

CB: Because we have done it, we've been there and you kind of, people know who you are, it's almost like disregard and also the main thing, the absolute main thing is because we are older, definitely, definitely.

IR: You're not old though.

CB: I'm old in TV terms. If you compare me to other female presenters and compare age, there won't be many that are older. Most of them are younger.

IR: I'm trying to think of someone to compare, but I won't go into your age, because that will be rude of me.

CB: I'll be 55 on Saturday.

IR: I thought it was Monday.

CB: No Saturday, err Sunday actually, on the 8th: Sunday. I'll be 55 on Sunday and I will be on a ship sailing from Tortola to Martinique.

IR: Very nice too.

CB: Working.

IR: Working on your birthday?

CB: A working holiday, yes it will be, and they've got a nice restaurant there, a Marco Pierre White restaurant, and I've already booked a table. I can't go with Steve, because Steve's got to be here with the children so I'm taking my children's Godmother; so Sue and I will be sitting having dinner in Marco Pierre White's in the middle of the ocean in the Caribbean.

IR: Yeah right, I'll be thinking of you Cheryl.

CB: But I am working, honestly.

IR: Yeah OK you win that one, I can't think of someone of comparable age who is still presenting.

CB: No, no. I mean I would like to get on Loose Women, I can't see any reason not to, and I'd like to, I'd love to have done This Morning. Those are things that I think that I can do because I like talking to people, I have an interest in human affairs and I've done a lot of live television, but you need to get your foot in the door and unfortunately the door was closed on me years ago, and I'll tell you when - 1997.

IR: It wasn't Tony Blair was it?

CB: No, at that time I was on telly six days a week and people wouldn't have realised it because some of the telly was early morning on a Sunday or during the week. I was on 11am during the week but on the BBC and it was opposite This Morning so This Morning would have had all the figures, but I was on and then I was still doing Record Breakers and Record Breakers Gold which was repeats of really old Record Breakers. So yeah six days a week in 1997 and in 1998 none.

IR: So why was that?

CB: Because Record Breakers was axed, the 11th Hour was moved, the Really Useful Show was axed. It was just TV stopping those programmes that I was making, and I didn't get asked to do any other stuff.

IR: Had you suffered from overexposure then?

CB: Yeah I think so, I think so. From the first time I presented a television programme in 1984 there hadn't been a year when I hadn't done at least one series of some sort. In '97 as I say there was Record Breakers, Record Breakers Gold, The Really Useful Show and the 11th Hour. I was doing four different shows, but one of them was a morning show, it showed from Monday to Friday so it's four different programmes. In fact on one of those programmes, The Really Useful Show, it was Monday morning and I was interviewing someone, it was, don't know what you call it, factual and I was interviewing someone about the fact that house prices had gone down or mortgages had gone up or something like that, and I said to this woman "thank you for joining on the 11th Hour" which was the programme I had presented the day before, so that didn't go down very well.

IR: No, that's a bit of a no no isn't it?

CB: And it was live telly.

IR: What happened after that? Were there expletives uttered your way?

CB: Well they laughed actually. I said "I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry" but it was a lot of stress as well. I was getting migraines a lot at that time and I had my children and my nanny was my niece Laura, she was looking after my kids and she was with me wherever I went and it was all too much so I was glad that my workload was alleviated, but not to the extent that it was. Alleviated I said, not stopped. But it started again, you know I do some stuff now, as much as I can.

IR: You're not presenting on television now are you?

CB: I've been presenting for the last year for Thompson TV which is just a travel channel selling Thompson holidays just like Sky Travel and all those, but that's come to an end now as well, because Thompson are just going to go digital so unfortunately that's finished.

IR: Are you bitter about your very, very high profile TV career stopping in 1997?

CB: No, no I'm not bitter. I don't get bitter about anything, you know you move on and I have to accept the fact that there are younger, prettier girls quite capable of carrying on in my footsteps, so I know that it's just that you can't say "woe is me" and expect people to ring you with a job, so you have to make yourself busy in other ways and if that means doing reality television then do it, because it keeps your face in the frame. Even silly little quizzes and things like that. I did Ant and Dec (Saturday Night Takeaway) for a couple of weeks.

IR: I saw that yes. It was very entertaining.

CB: And it was great to do, it's a high profile programme and I do that kind of thing because for me to keep my face in the public eye means that I still get gigs outside that will pay the mortgage, so I would be foolish …

IR: Simple as that?

CB: Yeah …

IR: That's what it's about?

CB: Yeah, there was a programme on last Monday called Pop Goes the Band, it was on Living Channel and it was a great opportunity because they gave us a makeover which was lovely, didn't pay very much at all because it was a digital channel but it was publicised and we had a couple of pages in OK! magazine and it's all about getting your face there because, Ian, this is my living. My face if you like, I don't mean it's a beautiful face, what I mean is, this well-known face is the only way now that I can make a living, so I have to utilise it in the best way I possibly can.

IR: What you put your face through on that programme looked pretty intense.

CB: What we could have had was a full facelift if we had wanted, lipsuction. We were offered whatever we wanted, but I didn't feel at that time I was old enough to have a facelift but the stuff that they did do, this Rio Blush where they inject it under the skin it really does work, I mean, you probably don't think I look great now because I've got no make-up on, but actually my skin …

IR: I would be unchivalrous if I didn't say you look beautiful.

CB: My skin is in pretty good nick for a woman of my age.

IR: I can vouch for that on the tape, I can vouch for that.

CB: And I had my teeth veneered because I had very gappy teeth before and that was a new veneer that's never been used before, and they don't have to file down your teeth…

IR: So you were a guinea pig?

CB: Yes, but that's OK, I don't mind, and it also meant we had an hour on television on a very popular channel, so it's all part of the plan really.

IR: Are there any reality TV shows that you wouldn't do?

CB: Yes, I wouldn't even consider Big Brother.

IR: That's the biggest one though.

CB: I hate it.

IR: Really?

CB: I hate Big Brother, yeah. I hate everything about it.

IR: Why's that?

CB: Because they try to bring the worst out of you and they try to make fools of you as well, and I can't bear it. Whereas the jungle you know, it's actually watching people manage themselves getting on with everybody, doing challenges. I guess in away it's kind of similar, but it seems more realistic being in the jungle as opposed to being just in a little house thing.

IR: I think you get more celebrities come out of the jungle having improved their lot than you do Big Brother. A lot of people go into Big Brother and really don't do themselves any favours. I can't think of many, I can't think of any who go into Big Brother and come out with their heads held high and in the jungle they do, I mean look at Myleene Klass.

CB: They all do, they all come out with a much better, higher profile.

IR: So is that you volunteering for the jungle?

CB: If they asked me to do it I would do it.

IR: Really?

CB: Yes.

IR: Would you eat bugs?

CB: Yes, no I probably wouldn't. So we would all have to starve that day. Put rats on me that's fine, I'm not worried about rats. I've done other stuff: I've done one recently called The World's Best Diet and that's going to be on this summer, and they sent different celebrities off to different parts of the world to see whether that diet was better for the body than the other one. Carol Malone, the journalist, she went to LA and did the LA diet where she didn't have any carbs and it wasn't just about losing weight, it's about if it's good for you or not.

She lost the most weight at the end, but she suffered for it.

IR: In what way did she suffer?

CB: Oh she said her breath was bad, she looked miserable, all sorts of funny old things that affected her, she needed to balance her diet.

IR: She became thin and miserable basically?

CB: I was sent off to India to do a vegetarian Indian diet - no alcohol. Linda Robson was sent to Japan, and a famous cricketer, Darren Gough, he was sent to Italy. The Mediterranean diet was the most successful.

IR: I'm not surprised.

CB: Yes. I put on two pounds in India.

IR: Did you? You had a good time then.

CB: I had a great time, a really good crew. I went to a place called Kerala in India which is down the coast from Goa and it's really gorgeous, really gorgeous, it was fabulous to see, I've never been to India before and I was so pleased when we opened our envelope to see where we were going and it was India. But anyway, so I did that, you had a little mini cam that you did your own filming with and stuff like that, and Pop Goes the Band. If you want to be on telly and they're the kind of programmes you are being offered and you want your face still to be in the public eye, you have to take them. Because the presenter-led programmes are getting fewer and fewer there are so many programmes now which are just talking heads aren't they, you know when the interviewee brings the question into the answer so you don't have to …

IR: Cheaper and easier to do.

CB: Yes, you don't have to pay for a presenter which is what I was, so I am fairly redundant now.

IR: Does it bother you how TV has evolved in the last 10-15 years?

CB: Oh I don't know, I mean things do move, music changes, you know, styles of houses, everything moves on so you have to accept it and I'm too small a fish to make any change, whether I like it or not, so you just have to go with it.

IR: Do you consider yourself a celebrity?

CB: Yes, but a minor celebrity, not a major celebrity.

IR: That's very honest of you Cheryl.

CB: I mean I will still shop in Sainsbury's, Tesco and Waitrose. I'll go in all three of them and sometimes I get stopped and sometimes I don't and when I get stopped it's fine. If I go somewhere as a celebrity then people expect me to be there and ask for autographs and things, but if I'm a surprise if they walk pass me in the street a lot of people are 'that's Cheryl Baker' but I don't very often get stopped any more. My kids, it drives my kids mad, they go (tuts) 'yes it is' and my husband, it drives him mad.

IR: You don't go out wearing a mask though to hide yourself?

CB: No, but you probably are aware that Rita Stroud is my real name and Cheryl Baker is my professional name. Rita Stroud is sitting in front of you now, otherwise I'd have had my full make-up on.

IR: I was going to ask if you have a 'I'm on a proper official celebrity engagement' persona and a 'I'm in Waitrose' persona.

CB: Oh absolutely, she's completely different.

IR: Presumably you won't turn up at Waitrose and start kissing people and smiling and all that sort of stuff?

CB: Yeah, Cheryl Baker is very different from Rita Stroud, they are the same person underneath but Cheryl Baker is much more extravert and she's happy to go on a stage and sing a song and present a show and you know talk about people and do all sorts of, do auctions and things for charity, but Rita Stroud dies at the very thought of that.

IR: Really?

CB: Yeah.

IR: So basically, it's like acting isn't it?

CB: If you said to me now 'would you sing me a song', I'd go 'please I can't do that now'.

IR: That's one of my later questions.

CB: If I was on stage and you said 'will you sing so-and-so' I'd go 'yeah, course'. It's really strange.

IR: It's interesting to hear that actually because you sort of have this - I don't mean you, I mean one has - the impression that celebrities are constantly hyper for want of a better word and always keen to be out there and engage and be sociable and what have you so it's fascinating to hear that it's a bit of an act to be honest.

CB: Well it is, yeah, you put it on, you are doing a performance, that's exactly what it is. But Rita Stroud is far too shy to perform, so she wears Cheryl Baker. She dons the Cheryl Baker outfit. Rita Stroud is vice chairman of the PTA at her kids' school but Cheryl Baker will be going there tonight, I've got to give a sort of a talk and I'll show some photos and video stuff and that, because they are having a performing arts evening and they want a lot of professionals to be there to talk about their life and whether they can offer any advice to the kids, and so Cheryl Baker will be going there tonight.

IR: Maybe she'll bump into Rita while she's there. What do you think of today's celebrity fascinated society?

CB: I think today's celebrity, whatever you said, has gone too far. I think it's far too intrusive. In the early days of Bucks Fizz and my television career there was no OK! or Hello, and so you did get a piece every now and again in the paper, but you never got those horrible photos where someone's got their cellulite showing or a bogey up their nose and things like that. You think 'is that really necessary, do people really care about that, do they really want to see that'?

IR: Sadly they must do because magazines like that sell which is sad.

CB: Like Heat, particularly Heat I suppose, but all of them, Closer and Best...

IR: So have you fallen victim to that then? Have you appeared in those?

CB: No that's the benefit of being a minor celebrity and not a major one.

IR: Oh I see, you get the good bits.

CB: I'm sure they would love to. There's one of them that says Crap Spot and that's where if you've seen someone really rubbish. Seen in Covent Garden or seen shopping or …

IR: It's probably made up though isn't it?

CB: I don't know, I just hope I'm never one of those, because I think that's really rotten and if people call you 'a has been' at least you have been, and you wouldn't talk like they put in print now, you wouldn't let someone else talk about your grandparents or even your parents as they do, and just because you are in the public eye doesn't mean you can be a whipping boy and people can just throw wet sponges at you.

IR: So have you developed a thick skin over the years, do you think to deal with this sort of stuff?

CB: No I haven't, it's always disturbed me. When people have said horrible things it upsets me.

IR: What about your family, what impact has it had on your family?

CB: I try and keep away from attracting bad publicity, I always have, I mean what I used to have in my head was that my parents would be distraught if they ever read anything unsavoury, and now I have kids at school, so I keep my nose clean as best I can because I don't want my family to be upset and I don't want them to be embarrassed about me. But there are ways that the paparazzi now can embarrass you without you even knowing, especially with candid photos, but fortunately they don't think I'm important enough, and I'm glad about that.

IR: OK. So while you would like to be back on TV and more in the public eye, maybe not because there could be some downsides?

CB: It may be because, once again, of my age so actually in that respect my age might be a benefit although there were some horrible photos of Fern Britton, although she's not as old as me though. But you know they do like to make people look hideous wherever possible. I have had one photo actually, I did have one in one of those magazines saying 'what does she think she's wearing? She looks dreadful', that kind of thing.

IR: What were you wearing?

CB: It was on stage. I was on stage in a gay club with Bucks Fizz, I go out with Mike Nolan and Shelley Preston, we call ourselves the Original Bucks Fizz, and in a gay club we wear a lot of black and shiny and we do rip the skirts off and fishnets. It sounds awful, I don't mean fishnet stockings, I mean tights and they are very complimentary to overweight legs, but this particular piece that went in, I think it was probably Heat or one of those, was not at all nice, but actually in that respect, or in that instance, I sort of agreed with it, because it did look hideous.

IR: Have you worn that outfit since?

CB: Yeah I have.

IR: Have you?

CB: Yeah, only because I didn't have another one, but I have now, I've got another one and I've lost weight so I know I look better now than I did then.

IR: So they can come and photograph you again can they?

CB: Yes.

IR: Correct that particular wrong. You mentioned your famous skirt tearing incident. How often are you reminded of that? Is it on a daily basis?

CB: No, but near enough. On Pop Goes the Band they showed it a thousand times just that snippet from the song and when I'm on the ship next week I've got to do some after-dinner speeches and in that I show a DVD and of course I have to show the skirt ripping off. It's an iconic moment I think, an iconic television moment because no-one at that time had done anything like that.

IR: Do you get fed up seeing it though?

CB: No.

IR: No?

CB: No we wouldn't have won the Eurovision without it, I wouldn't be talking to you about winning the Eurovision so without the Velcro and the skirt... it changed my life, three minutes …

IR: A bit of Velcro.

CB: A bit of Velcro, yeah, changed my life completely.

IR: Why do you think we have only won the Eurovision once since you won it, with Katrina and the Waves?

CB: Once since we won it and no-one can remember the song either. Well two reasons, the songs haven't been good enough and politically. The Eurovision is too big now for a start, and with so many Eastern European Baltic states, the old Russia, Czechoslovakia, what used to be. When all those counties, states, principalities whatever they are now, some of them are very tiny and some of them we've never heard of and I can't spell. They are all going to vote for each other because they have been behind the Iron Curtain for so long and suddenly they are released into the western world, and most of them have moved to the Wildernesse estate of course.

IR: They should vote for us then shouldn't they?

CB: It's like being set free in a way and they don't know enough about us, I'm sure that behind the Iron Curtain they were only told what they were allowed to hear and so, I think the UK is almost like America, it's almost like the enemy.

IR: I think the UK is very unpopular throughout Europe, and probably not just the Baltic states. It's sad that the highest profile method we have of seeing that is Eurovision when you have all the countries' names and not giving us any points. You see it all across Europe and we are just not very popular.

CB: We are only tiny though aren't we?

IR: Well we are.

CB: Tiny with a big voice.

IR: We have always been a bit too big for our boots maybe. But as well as that you think it's down to poor songs?

CB: Oh yeah I don't think our songs have been good enough to win, but in recent years they've not been bad enough to come last.

IR: No?

CB: No. Who was it, Andy Abraham, it wasn't the best song of the evening, but it wasn't the worst. It should have received some votes and it's embarrassing for them, I feel really sorry for the artists.

IR: Would you do it again if they asked you?

CB: No, I'm too old.

IR: Stop saying that.

CB: But I am, I'm too old for Eurovision, but we were asked to do it again in 1986, we won in '81 so they asked us to do it again five years later so they obviously saw there was already a downturn in popularity with the UK and they wanted to turn that back round again. But you can't do any better than win, but you can do worse, even if you come second, you haven't done as well as you did last time, so we couldn't do it, we couldn't risk it.

IR: But it's all about the taking part that counts, isn't that what they say?

CB: Yes but it's not a football match. This is a big international competition that isn't just watched in the UK, it's watched around the world. My brother watched it Australia. They watch it in Canada. There was the 50 years of Eurovision, it was held in Copenhagen and we went over, Mike, Shelley and I went over to perform and it was broadcast around the world except for in the UK.

IR: Really?

CB: So you can almost understand why Europe throws disdain at us, we even do it to ourselves.

IR: Is there still a place for Eurovision do you think?

CB: Yeah it's lovely. I still think there's a place for Miss World, it's just a bit of frivolous fun that's all it is. It's a bit of froth and to concentrate on countries coming together rather than being separated because of war or disagreement or whatever. I think it has to be applauded, I think it's a fantastic thing.

IR: So should we just relax, finish last and just enjoy taking part?

CB: I think it's too much of a blow to keep coming last and they …

IR: Knocking our confidence is it?

CB: Yeah and they obviously realised that there's more to it than just that the song isn't as good. I think the reason they've brought in Andrew Lloyd Webber this time is because he's well known throughout the world, and the guy who won last year is well known across Eastern Europe, had number one hits everywhere, and Lordi, the Finnish group, were really famous all across Europe, apart from the UK, so maybe they've gone down the route of Andrew Lloyd Webber hoping that people think it must be a good song because Andrew Lloyd Webber has written it, so if that's the case we might be better than last.

IR: Lordi was a bit different from Bucks Fizz wasn't it?

CB: Yeah but it used the same tactics. They had that shock element of the look as opposed to just the song. Although it's a song contest I think that the look is equally important, equally important, because you have to make yourself memorable and you can only do that really if you do something that shocks.

IR: Otherwise I suppose if you're in the first five or six acts no-one's going to remember you by the time it comes to voting.

CB: Well I always watch and I always make notes, I go 'right so that was Finland, I thought that was a really good song, I'll give them eight' and then I look back after song number 12 and I think 'I gave Finland an eight, what was that song?' But if it was someone like Lordi coming on dressed quite grotesquely or the first band ever to rip their clothes off, as we were, then you do remember it, and I do honestly believe that the ripping off of the skirt was the reason that we won the Eurovision. I do. It gave us extra points.

IR: You've frequently been described as being just like the girl next door. Is that a tag that you are happy with?

CB: Yeah I am. I'm the woman next door now, but I like to think that I'm a good neighbour, I'd do anyone a favour if I can.

IR: I'll ask them on the way out.

CB: Well there's only a couple you can ask really, because where I live there's no neighbours, not really, you can't see any anyway. When my kids went to Ightham school I was very involved with that and I was on the PTA there. When you live in a place like Ightham where a lot of the houses are separated from their neighbours like we are and we have no shops; we have pubs, you can meet people in pubs, or you can go to church, but I'm not a churchgoer, or if your kids go to the local school you meet people that way, and being on the PTA meant I was actually doing something as well with other people, and I like that, that's why I'm on the PTA now at my kids' school, in Tonbridge.

IR: It becomes a sort of social club?

CB: It does, yes it does. But anyway, yeah I think I'm a good neighbour, I would do anyone a good turn and I am the woman next door. Well you can see me I'm in a pair of jogging pants, pair of slippers and a sweatshirt, and no face on, and probably knock on any door along here and everyone will be very similar, if they are doing their housework or whatever. Going back to Cheryl Baker, I wear her, and I'll put her on at about 5m and I'll be at Hillview School wearing Cheryl Baker tonight and performing.

IR: That attitude has always extended to the media though. You have always been very open with the media, there's a whole range of pretty serious subject that you've openly talked about. Recently obviously you've talked about your hair loss and C.diff.

CB: I actually like it, I think it's cathartic I suppose. If you have faced a major problem or even a disaster or trauma in your life, some people choose to be quiet about it and others, like Jade Goody, come out and it helps to talk, and also I don't think it just helps me, I think if I'm talking about c-diff in hospital, hair loss with women, IVF because you can't have children, there are a lot of women out there, people out there who have gone through the same thing or are going through it, and it's kind of nice for them because they realise then that they are sharing it with someone else. They are not on their own, because at the time you do think you are on your own. When I was losing my hair I thought 'oh God I'm a woman, women don't lose their hair', but now I realise that the majority of women lose their hair.

IR: Isn't it one in three or one in four or something?

CB: Well no, I've heard all sorts of different figures, but at some point throughout your life, whether it's trauma or diet or age or whatever it is, some of the figures are 60 per cent, and actually there's a lot of people now that I see that are losing their hair, I notice it more now than I did before.

IR: You just wander round Waitrose looking at people's scalps?

CB: I do.

IR: No wonder people recognise you.

CB: I just stop, and go 'would you excuse, me can I just have a quick look at your hair? Can I have a fumble? ' No I notice when I'm talking to people, because generally people have their head down and you can see, and with a lot of women they thin at the front here, and I never used to think what it was …

IR: You're looking at my hair now aren't you?

CB: No I'm not, I'm not, you've got a fine head of hair.

IR: Thank you.

CB: But if ever you lose it I've got Viviscal for Men as well as women.

IR: That's brilliant. But with other celebrities a lot of these issues would be off limits and no doubt they would criticise you for being so outspoken and opening up your life to the media quite so much.

CB: Oh, do I care? Do I care what they think? I'm contradicting myself now because earlier on I said I do care what people say, but that's what I am, I am a very open person and if by being open and talking about things that I want to talk about offends people it's unfortunate. I can't say I'm sorry because I don't know who they are, and I don't know how it's affected them, and I've already said it.

IR: Do you worry that a whole generation of people who won't know Bucks Fizz and Record Breakers and all the rest of it will only associate you with the hair loss adverts.

CB: No.

IR: No?

CB: No, I don't worry about that at all. It is quite funny though, because at one time apparently my face was on all the bins in all of the shopping precincts in Tunbridge Wells and Bluewater, everywhere.

IR: Face on a bin?

CB: Yeah, it's good advertising apparently, but yeah, my kids weren't too enamoured about that. We were at Royal Victoria Place shopping centre and Natalie went 'Oh Mum, Oh Mum put your head down, put your head down' I said 'Why what's happened?' she said 'Your face is on the bin, your face is on the bin' so I don't think they were all that happy about that. The fortunate thing is that because of the Eurovision, as long as it keeps going, they will always show Bucks Fizz wining the Eurovision Song Contest and I do keep my toe in certain programmes. So no I'm not worried. It is a bit of a shame when you see kids and they have no idea who you are. When you've been lorded as much as I have in the past, years ago especially and kids especially, nine to 13-year-olds running up to you going 'Oh I cant believe it's you, Cheryl Baker, oh Bucks Fizz' and now nine to 13-year-olds, as you say, don't know who I am at all and it just makes you realise it happened so long ago, so long that these kids weren't even thought of let alone born, you know. It just makes you realise how long you've been in this business.

IR: Do those sorts of questions go through your head though when you are considering some kind of endorsement, as you were with the hair loss treatment?

CB: No.

IR: Did you worry about the impact it might have on your kids, or how you might be remembered?

CB: No, because it's nothing I'm ashamed of at all. I was asked if I would do something for incontinence knickers, and I said 'But I'm not incontinent' and they went 'It doesn't matter, all you're saying is you would like to promote these incontinence knickers because you want to know they are there when you do need them', and I went 'No, I don't want to do that'. I think you have to draw the line. The reason I promoted the hair loss tablets was because I suffered from hair loss. I'm not going to promote something that I don't believe in. I'm not going to work for something just for the money. And I turn a lot of jobs down for that very reason.

IR: Oh really? I'm intrigued. What else have you turned down apart from incontinence pants?

CB: I'd have to ring and find out. I just kick it out of court straight away, as soon as I get the phone call saying 'Will you do this?' I go 'No' and that's it.

IR: Do you get a lot of offers like that?

CB: No not a lot, but they pay very well, so I don't just work for the money, and I turn a lot of work down. Tours, I've just turned another tour down, pantomimes I turn down. I'm considering one this year.

IR: Are you? Why do you turn showbiz jobs like that down?

CB: Because it takes me away from my kids.

IR: OK.

CB: And especially pantomime. The last pantomime I did was in Sevenoaks and I think it was in 2007, might have been before 2005, can't remember, whatever, and the only reason I did it was because it's my home town, you know, I wont do anywhere else, but I'll do my home town. But it still ruins my Christmas, and the last couple of days I've spoken to the kids and I've said 'Look I've been offered one in Lewisham, the Catford Theatre, and I'd be the Fair Godmother', but they went 'Mum you hate doing panto, it ruins Christmas and New Year and Uncle Colin's coming home from Australia', that's my brother, and I thought they're absolutely right. But it's a bank raid, you know. I remember Linda Lusardi and Sam Cain, they do panto together and they always do a long run. They did Bromley, they do at least six weeks, sometimes eight weeks, and she said they can earn enough just doing panto and not have to work for the rest of the year.

IR: That's got to be attractive hasn't it?

CB: Yes, but I've done two pantos since the children were born, they are 14 now. I could do them every year but I don't do them because I sit in the audience with my children watching the local panto and thinking 'Thank God I'm not up there, thank God I'm in the audience with my kids and I can stand up and we can go out and we can go for a meal, whereas these have got an hour and then they've got to put their make-up back on and do another show'.

IR: Is there a stigma attached to pantomime do you think within the celebrity circles in which you operate? Pantomime is always seen as a bit naff to be honest.

CB: No everyone loves them, everybody does them.

IR: Does that make it OK?

CB: Yeah, everybody does them because they pay well. They don't pay well for the dancers, they get basic wages, but it's good experience for them. But no there is no stigma. I mean you've only got to see who stars in pantos around the country, you only see the local ones. Have a look at the panto list and see who's appearing in Warrington and Darlington and Manchester and Birmingham, all are big, big names, all the stars of the soaps and big comedians and people that are famous for being famous. They all do it. You have them come over from the States to star in them.

IR: But you never get people who are at the top of their career doing them, it's always people who are on the way up or on the way down.

CB: Yeah you do, that's not true. For instance, with EastEnders the actors get time off so they can go and do their pantomime and come back in. They are people who are in the public eye five days a week or six days a week so that's not true, and the more current your profile is the more money you can earn and some people would be earning £20,000 a week, you know and it's difficult to turn down. I've never had that sort of money offered.

IR: Your morals are costing you money in that case, you should probably just do it for the money.

CB: It's costing me a fortune, my morals have cost me an absolute fortune, I've turned down so many tours and so many pantomimes. Every year.

IR: That's quite refreshing to hear from a celebrity to be honest.

CB: Well I love my life, I love my live and I adore my kids and I'll do anything for my kids and if it means not working then I don't work. But I do have to do some stuff because we have bills, we have a mortgage, so I do have to work.

IR: Alright , fair enough.

CB: Which is why I'm going to the Caribbean, but only for six days. After-dinner speaking.

IR: You touched earlier on your IVF treatment, again something you spoke very publicly about. How have you approached that subject with your daughters?

CB: I told them very early on in their lives, obviously when they were born and up to the age of four they had no reason at all to know that they were IVF, but when they started primary school at Ightham I tried to explain as simply as possible, and they took it on board. I didn't want the kids saying to them 'You're test tube babies' because children can be very hurtful, very spiteful sometimes without even realising it. You've only got to have a parent say to the kids 'Oh Cheryl Baker's children were born in a test tube' or something and that child goes to school and passes it on.

In fact I'll tell you what upset my kids more than anything going to primary school, they came home and they were in tears. They went 'you lied to us, your name's not Rita Straud' and I went 'What do you mean?' and they went 'It's Cheryl Baker'. I went 'No it isn't' and I didn't even give that a thought, I didn't think at all to say to my children I have another name and that was when I was telly all the time. They were born in '94 so in '97 when it was really busy, they were used to seeing me on the telly, and as far they were concerned everyone's Mum is on the telly, because they had no reason to think it was special. Record Breakers would be on and they wouldn't even watch, because they were too young, they would rather watch Teletubbies than Record Breakers. So it meant nothing to them until they went to school and discovered that I had this name Cheryl Baker and they thought that I'd lied to them. Isn't that funny.

IR: So at what stage did they realise that their Mum was famous?

CB: It was when I was invited to places and they said bring the children and people treated us differently, you know, probably at primary school I think they realised it, but they definitely realised it in secondary school and they don't particularly like it.

IR: It's got to be difficult for children to take.

CB: No they don't like it.

IR: Because children generally like to fit in don't they.

CB: Yeah.

IR: And just keep their head down.

CB: I did one of these cruises. The first one I did was a few years ago, they were about nine or 10 and I did a Q&A session with the cruise director and one of the questions from the audience was 'what do your children think of you being famous?' and I said, 'Well one of them's here' one of them was doing a club and the other one was there with me, Natalie, and I said 'Nats, come up here on the stage' and she did and she was asked the question again and she said 'Sometimes it's nice, but mostly I just want Mum to be Mum, not Cheryl Baker'.

And she said 'Mum had to do some photos and we were with her and they pushed me and my sister out the way so they could get a photo'. Now I didn't realise that. If I'd have seen that I would have clocked someone, I would have, they would have had my fist. I think that's terrible. That's what I was saying again about how invasive the press are and the paparazzi, it's almost like they own you and they have no right. They have no right, I know you are in the public eye but they go too far and to actually push my kids out of the way I think is a shameful thing to do. What would they do if it was their children and someone did it to them? So anyway yes, sometimes they like it, they like it if we get invited to a premiere or something, it doesn't happen often.

IR: They like the good bits then?

CB: Yeah, they like the good bits and they like that they live in a nice house - this wouldn't have happened without the fame, you know, it's not a fortune, we don't have a fortune but we do have a nice house, but we have to work hard to do the nice.

IR: But if the kids aren't massively keen on the fame side of things, have you considered taking your moral duty a bit further? Have you considered giving it up and finding something else to do out of the limelight?

CB: I do a lot of stuff out the limelight, I do a lot of charity work out of the lime light, but I can't get a job out of the lime light can I? Can I? I mean it would be very difficult. I was a shorthand typist before I was a singer. I can't go to the local Jobcentre and say 'Can you get me a job as a shorthand typist?

IR: I still use shorthand, people still need shorthand.

CB: But this is what I do now, I still take things down in shorthand just in case, you never know when you might need it again, but this is my job now, this is what I do, and I'm very lucky in that I can pick and choose and it means I don't have to work every day and I take the kids to school and I'm there to pick them up, and very often in my public, in my Cheryl Baker persona, they can be involved and they can come with me.

IR: What have you enjoyed doing the most? Singing, acting or TV presenting? (Question from Audrey Franks, Bosville Drive, Sevenoaks)

CB: Oh (very long pause) my first love was singing, I always wanted to be a singer when I was a little girl and because I was the most outspoken in Bucks Fizz I was asked to do more TV interviews that lead on to me being a presenter, so that was something that I didn't have visions of doing ever, but when it came about I really enjoyed it and I loved doing Record Breakers because you were meeting people that were extreme and it took me around the world, I met Bob Hope in his own house in LA, it was just fantastic, and went to Australia to break some records there and saw my brother Colin who I hadn't seen for year, so it opened great doors for me, but I was still singing at the same time. And then acting, I've done a few plays and I've done one musical which was Footloose, which I absolutely loved, I loved Footloose so much.

IR: So was your answer singing?

CB: I think if I had to pick, it would be singing, because when you stand on a stage and people scream because you are there - and they still do, because we do a lot of these '80s festivals, and the audience is there to remember. It's not young kids any more, these are all 30 and 40-year-olds. You come on stage and they scream, and they wave their old Bucks Fizz scarves and they wear their old Bucks Fizz t-shirts, and yes I suppose now it gives me the biggest kick off all, singing, standing on the stage singing.

IR: You briefly referred earlier to your mother-in-law's death (Doreen Ford died of C.diff at Maidstone Hospital in 2007). Does that still anger you?

CB: Yeah, it really does anger me. It really does. That she died of an infection that she picked up in hospital, I think is unforgivable. It's all gone a bit quiet now, but at the time, I went up to Parliament, I lobbied Parliament and I went up and I had a private meeting with Ann Keen who was the under secretary for health, and she spoke about taking me around the UK to see what progress they were making in the hospitals. But that never happened.

IR: Would you have done that?

CB: Yeah, absolutely, absolutely, what happened to Doreen... it should have stopped there. We were lucky in that respect that I was the celebrity face because otherwise she'd have just been another statistic and because we made a big fuss of it, it started off with the John Warnett show on BBC Radio Kent, and then it went on to other radio stations, then TV, then the local news, and then they made a Panorama special, and then there was a News at Ten special that I had to make, and it escalated, and it wouldn't have done that had it not been for the public face for Cheryl Baker who was outspoken.

So in that respect, bless her heart, Doreen didn't die in vain, but it should have put a stop to it all. I must say that Maidstone Hospital, I can speak for the others because I haven't been there, but the difference at Maidstone is phenomenal.

IR: Well I went to Maidstone recently and you can't move for the hand gel stuff, it's everywhere.

CB: It doesn't actually affect C.diff unfortunately, you have to wash your hands with soap and water for C.diff, but it is good that they've done that and it's not just that, they've deep cleaned the hospital.

IR: They were constantly cleaning as well while I was there.

CB: Yeah, well I'll tell you what, the letter that we had after Doreen died was from the lovely Rose Gibb (former chief executive of the Maidstone and Tunbridge Wells NHS Trust), or it might have been someone underneath her, not in the Biblical sense …

IR: No, that's quite an image.

CB: They sent a letter through saying 'We thought you would be pleased to know that we now have 24-hour cleaning at the hospital' and I was absolutely shocked.

IR: What did they have then?

CB: Exactly, I mean when did it start and stop? When do people stop being ill? When do they stop pooing themselves or bleeding? I couldn't believe that they were pleased to say that they now had 24-hour cleaning.

IR: That's almost insulting isn't it, to be sent that letter.

CB: Yes. And Doreen when she died, by the way, she was in the medical assessment ward and she had been there for a couple of days, so they knew what she was dying of, they knew she was dying and they knew it was C.diff and they knew she had contracted it in their hospital, although they would never hold their hand up and say that, but they left her in the medical assessment ward. I mean there's other people there for goodness sake, they got it so badly wrong at that time.

IR: This word is way too overused in media, but it was an absolute scandal what happened in those hospitals.

CB: It was, it was scandalous, yes it was, and fortunately because of the Cheryl Baker face and being outspoken it hopefully propelled them to making them do something about it. She must hate me Rose Gibb, she must absolutely hate me.

IR: I'm sure the feeling's mutual isn't it?

CB: Oh, I detest the woman, and the fact that she's been regularly recently at the High Court.

IR: Trying to get £250,000 out of the Trust. Do you think she should get that money?

CB: No of course she bloody shouldn't, she should take responsibility for all of those deaths. She knew that that hospital had a major problem and that people were dying of an infection picked up in the hospital and she did little or nothing about it and I think that's absolutely, using your word, scandalous.

IR: I don't think anyone would argue with you on that one.

CB: No.

IR: When did you last speak to the Trust or anybody at the Trust about this?

CB: Oh no I haven't spoken to them for years, but I go up to Maidstone regularly with my father-in-law because he's being treated for leukaemia and a dodgy heart. He had heart failure, he's up there all the time.

IR: How do you feel going back there?

CB: Fine, because they've done something about it, I mean they really have turned it around, I think it's a fabulous hospital. I liked it before, you know, it's just the staff work so hard, there's not enough staff, too many chiefs not enough Indians if you like, yeah, and pay themselves nice fat wages like Rose did, and are happy to push a pen along on a bit of paper but won't clear up someone's mess, they brought in outside cleaners because it was cheaper. Let's have in-house cleaners and then they take responsibility for their own ward, that's what they used to do.

Plus my father-in-law when he was young he had some infection of some sort, I don't know it might have been scarlet fever or something, and he went into a high infection hospital you could only visit once a week and you were gowned from head to foot, and in Maidstone when I went to see Doreen, when they knew she had C.diff, they put her in her own little room and we found it quite funny and I sat on her bed and I gave her a kiss and I wasn't told not to do those things. In fairness to them I don't think they realised at that time just how bad and how easily passed on C.diff was, I'm talking about the nurses now, not the powers that be, because I think they knew but they were very conveniently sweeping it all under the carpet.

IR: But this is basic stuff ,surely, having people clean the hospital, when you've got someone infectious you stay clear of them, it's worrying that even that basic level of competence wasn't there.

CB: It literally was 'if we ignore it, it will go away' and Rose, when I said to her 'Doreen contracted the C.diff in this hospital' she went 'No, no she could have brought it in with her'. I thought 'you bitch, you're even trying to wriggle out of the fact that you are responsible for all of these deaths and you're trying to wriggle out of it by saying they might have brought it in'.

What an uncanny coincidence that all of those people just happened to go into the same hospital at around the same time, all with C.diff, she's the bitch from Hell and I hate her, and I hope she gets what she deserves, which is nothing.

IR: Let's take one step back. The Stag Theatre has reopened, as you are all too aware. How confident are you that it will succeed?

CB: Absolutely 100 per cent confident.

IR: Really?

CB: Yeah, I really am.

IR: The town council would love to hear you say that.

CB: Well, I wanted to see Slum Dog Millionaire and we couldn't get in so I had to book in advance.

IR: I thought you meant they had a no celebrity rule.

CB: (Laughing) No, it was Rita Stroud that went so I was OK. No it was packed, so not only is it the theatre that's getting more use now, it's also the cinema, people are coming back and they're lovely little cinemas and they're cheap. It's not as expensive as going to some of the bigger ones, and it's nice and local. My kids loved it and I went to see the panto at Christmas which was excellent. I put in a bid for this year, with Bullfrog (Productions, her theatre company). Unfortunately we didn't get it, but we are opening a stage school there. We are going there with …

IR: Cheryl sorry, go back a sec. You wanted to put on a pantomime there at the Stag, and you couldn't because somebody else had already got there?

CB: Oh no, no, no, no we had meetings, people are clambering to put their foot in the stage door, in the Stag door. There were five or six or seven proposals put to them …

IR: God that's a turnaround isn't it?

CB: Including ours, yes. I'm sorry that ours didn't get chosen, but I'm sure …

IR: It's a wonderful thing for the Stag though if Cheryl Baker can't get her pantomime on at the local theatre because the interest is so great.

CB: Yes, yes. Because my kids go to Bullfrog, and the person who started Bullfrog is Jill Shirley, Jill McGrogan, her married name, and …

IR: There are so many different names floating around here.

CB: Well her professional name is Jill Shirley, and her married name is Jill McGrogan, and she was manager of Bucks Fizz and she managed me for years and years, and I'm godmother to her children, so I'm very in with her and I started just by going to Bullfrog to help out and now I'm very much involved, I do a lot of the directing and I appear in some of her productions and we are coming there in the Easter to the Stag with a Disney double bill. So we are going to be there in the Easter holidays. It's a little tour in the Easter week. We are going to Epsom, Tunbridge Wells, a couple of gigs at East Grinstead at the Chequer Mead and then we are coming to the Stag, and then in the summer in the last two weeks of August before school goes back again, we are doing a summer school for Footloose the musical, which I was in. It's great with songs like Let's Hear if for the Boy, and I Need a Hero and stuff like that.

IR: Not up my street but I'm sure you will forgive me that.

CB: I loved it, I loved being in it, I was Vi the vicar's wife, and then as of September we start a Bullfrog school there, so it's a youth theatre group, so it's not like Stagecoach where you do an hour of singing, an hour of dancing, an hour of drama. It's actually working towards a production, so we are thinking of, maybe next Christmas, perhaps doing Les Miserables, so the students who start at the Stag at Bullfrog in September will eventually perform Les Miserables at the next opportunity. So that's what it is, it's not like Stagecoach, it's particularly a youth theatre group.

IR: Your daughters are part of your stage school are they?

CB: Yes.

IR: Have you pushed them into that?

CB: They didn't take any pushing let me tell you.

IR: No?

CB: From a very, very early age they would love to sing and dance in front of people and I never asked them, and in fact Steve and I both said to them 'You have to be sensible, by all means if you want to be in showbiz then that's fine, follow your heart, but you have to do something sensible as well', because otherwise it's a great big marketplace out there for entertainers and most of them are out of work, and if they're out of work they are either on the stage door - go to any theatre and see who's working in that theatre and they'll all be out of work actors - or they'll be waiters or waitresses or they'll be working in Tesco so I said 'Get something else under your belt so you actually have a living that you can fall back on and get a proper job, if necessary'.

IR: It must have been difficult for them to hear that thought, because you're successful, your husband plays with Cliff Richard, they see the success in showbiz so it's got to be difficult for them to hear that.

CB: But we've told them that Steve and I have been very lucky and it was easier, it wasn't easy, but it was easier to get a job then, and it's because of shows like the X Factor and Pop Idol, all those, and Britain's Got Talent. Because of those shows people realise now that it's not a pipe dream, you can actually make it a reality, and shows like Big Brother - you don't even have to be good at anything now, you just have to be outspoken or prepared to be extreme.

IR: Is showbusiness these days an unpleasant business?

CB: Oh, yes some of it is, but I think it's always had it's unpleasant side, you don't have to go along with that. My life has been fantastic and I've done some amazing things and I don't get mixed up with stuff that I think is not right.

IR: Are you talking drugs here or?

CB: Well, drugs, people that are less than... there's not a lot of honesty in the business. For instance when we won the Eurovision Song Contest everyone thought we were the best thing and everyone makes such a fuss of you and you know, fly everywhere first class. I never fell for that, because I knew that it was just while we were famous.

There's a lot of pretence in showbusiness, but if you know that that's how it is then that's OK, you can get on with it, but just don't get sucked in by it.

I think there's a lot of kids, young kids out there that become famous and the following year they're on the scrap heap and I think it plays with their minds, I really do.

IR: So as a parent would you be happy for your daughters to go into that business?

CB: Well, Steve would rather they were knee surgeons because he spent so much money on his dodgy knees. I'd love to see my kids on the stage, I mean I do regularly in amateur productions and things they do at the school, but if they were professional and successful that would be amazing. If they were professional and struggling I would hate it.

IR: Would you feel guilty?

CB: No, no, I'm not pushing them either way, I'll back them, I'll help them in any way I can, if they don't want my help because of who I am, they might prefer to do things on their own, under their own steam and that's find too, but as long as they don't put everything into getting a job and being a success as a singer, songwriter, actor, whatever, you know, because it's too precarious a business.

IR: You mentioned X Factor. You see kids going onto X Factor year after year and if they don't get through the first stage then it's ruined their lives and they've 'Been working at this for 15 years' or something silly, and that's really quite sad to watch that actually.

CB: It is …

IR: I don't mean upsetting, I mean sad.

CB: Yes it is sad. Although I think Simon Cowell speaks absolutely honestly, some of the things he says, you think 'Don't say that, that's going to really hurt them, please don't say that'. Sometimes he says things and it is true, but he doesn't have to say it, it's not necessary, just 'no, it's not good enough, thank you'.

IR: It's good TV though isn't it.

CB: Yeah, when he says things like 'You've got the worst voice I've ever heard'.

IR: He says that to a lot of people so they can't all be the worst.

CB: They think they're good, so let them think they're good, it's OK. Let them go out of there thinking 'It's his loss not mine', rather than feeling suicidal.

IR: Would you have gone on X Factor if it was around?

CB: Yeah.

IR: Really?

CB: And I wouldn't have got through. I would have gone into it, but I wouldn't have got through.

IR: You wouldn't have got through?

CB: No.

IR: So, Eurovision winner Cheryl Baker …

CB: I might have got through. I might have got so far. I mean when I was unknown I would have gone into it as a kid.

IR: Yes, that's what I mean.

CB: I would have gone into it.

IR: But I mean now, looking back you are saying your singing wasn't good enough to get you through even the first round?

CB: No I can't sing like some of them. Oh I might got through a couple of rounds, but I can't sing like some of those, I'm no Leona Lewis or Alexandra (Burke), but I know that I was right for what I did. I'm a really good harmony singer, I love singing harmony, it's like using your voice as an instrument you know.

IR: But in 30 years' time, it's 28 years since your Eurovision win, in 30 years' time will Leona and Alexandra be as well known still as you are?

CB: They'd have to do the Eurovision to do that you see. - rip their clothes off (laughs). Possibly, don't know, Leona's doing very well in America, she could be a Whitney Houston, she could be doing Las Vegas and earning mega bucks as they all do. That's the American equivalent of panto.

IR: Vegas is a strange place.

CB: Yes, they all do it, Elton John does it. You're selling yourself for cash and there's nothing wrong with that.

IR: I'm slightly confused in a way, do you enjoy being famous? You've said that you sort of cash in on your fame.

CB: I do cash in on my fame, that's how I make my living, but I do enjoy it as well. I do enjoy being famous and I don't enjoy it at the same time.

If I'm on holiday I don't want anyone to know who I am, but if I'm in a restaurant I don't want anyone knowing who I am, I'll sit facing away, I'll face the wall on purpose.

IR: What about the Banana Leaf though? They know you pretty well down there, your face is all over that place.

CB: I know, I went there on its opening night because I was a guest of a friend of mine. I didn't go there as Cheryl Baker, and they went 'Oh Cheryl Baker, Cheryl Baker' and they asked me to cut the cake and you know it was quite bizarre. They've done a TV show with me now, you know the programme when I went to India. They'll be on it in June or July.

IR: Here's another reader's question. What are the three most important things for the town council to concentrate on to ensure success of the Stag? (Question from Charles Hebert, Sevenoaks Community Arts and Theatre chairman)

CB: Oh that's a hard question.

IR: I know.

CB: That's a serious question.

IR: Are my questions not serious?

CB: No I mean it's a serious question that I might not know the answer to, but three or four things that they have to do?

IR: Yeah, what do they need to concentrate on to make the Stag a long term?

CB: Promotion. Every production needs to be well promoted because then the people of Sevenoaks, if they know what's on then hopefully they will come and support.

To make sure that the ticket price is fair and not too expensive. They've done one thing that's absolutely right: they're putting on blockbuster films rather than specialist films.

To make sure the Stag isn't too expensive. Kino used to charge a phenomenal amount per day, it was the most expensive suburban theatre in the country.

IR: So are you saying keep ticket prices low for people or make the hiring costs low?

CB: Well if the hiring cost is low then the ticket price won't be high. If their hiring cost is £3,000 or whatever it was then the ticket price has to be high to cover the cost of the hire.

IR: It's a vicious circle?

CB: Yes, so as long the hiring is a sensible price then the ticket price will stay low which will make people come. As long as they have good publicity people will come, and the intention is that they are going to make parts, it's not derelict, but parts of the building that haven't been used for years, they are actually going to make one part of it I believe a youth coffee bar.

IR: It's a massive great building.

CB: Yeah, it's fabulous ,they should make certain areas into dance studios, we are going to run a school there, so it will be used not just for shows and for films, but the building will be used, hopefully, throughout the week and at weekends by societies and people that need rehearsals, little private functions, they're going to use the Plaza Suite.

They've gone into some kind of business deal with the Royal Oak, and if the Royal Oak holds the ceremony, if it's a big reception after they'll have it at the Plaza Suite instead and things like that.

I think they are doing a very good job so far and I'd be very surprised, if it doesn't work, with as much effort as has gone into it in recent months and with the promise of what should be happening in the next few months, if it doesn't work then Sevenoaks doesn't deserve a theatre. But currently I would say it's proven to be a big success.

IR: OK, so they need to concentrate on promoting events, keeping costs as low as possible.

CB: Yes, and also in the productions, although it's a community centre not just a theatre, you don't only want community theatre, you don't only want amateur: bring in the professionals, they've got one this Saturday, I'm going to be away. They've got, what's his name? (starts flicking through a paper) I so want to see him, he's fantastic. Steve will go

IR: For the record I will point out you are looking through the Chronicle for this essential local information.

CB: Of course. I get this delivered every week. (finds the correct page) Albert Lee.

IR: Oh right.

CB: Albert Lee the guitarist. Albert Lee, if you ask any famous guitarist who is their icon in the guitar world it's Albert Lee and he's coming to the Stag for goodness sake. How fantastic is that? It's great that there are not only amateur productions, but also professional productions. You see the trouble with the Stag is that the theatre is small and so the bigger productions that go to the likes of Tunbridge Wells Assembly Hall and Bromley, if they've got a big production of some sort they are probably paying big bucks to their stars so they can't come to the Stag because they can't cover their costs.

IR: But 400 seats is no mean feat is it?

CB: No, but you would have to have a very, very high ticket price if you wanted a big block buster play or something, or a big name.

IR: But therein lies its problem because 400 seats isn't huge, but it isn't small: it kind of sits in the middle which causes problems because your local am dram group wont be packing that out, but if you have some big lavish professional productions it's not big enough. That's the problem.

CB: Yes, it is the problem I guess, however having said that, it's stunningly beautiful, I think the theatre itself is fabulous and you say about the local am drams can't fill it, but it don't think I've been to a local am dram production that hasn't been filled. I did do some plays at the Stag and one performance was about 16 people in the audience. It was awful, awful, this was just pre-Kino.

IR: Sevenoaks Playhouse Ltd?

CB: Yes.

IR: Who was worse, Sevenoaks Playhouse or Kino?

CB: Sevenoaks Playhouse were trying to make it too upmarket, and Kino were just too expensive. I think actually, probably, the masterplan for Kino was to make a great big cinema complex and get rid of the theatre altogether so I think they were both a bad as each other, and they were the downfall, they were the downfall of the Stag.

IR: They very nearly brought it down. I don't think people in Sevenoaks are aware quite how close the council came to knocking down that building, or selling that building off, because they could have really cashed in and solved themselves some financial problems by getting rid of that building, it came very close.

CB: I'm so thrilled that it's turned around and that the council are going to run it, and a lady called Linda Larter (town council chief executive) who's she's really good. There are a lot of people that want this to succeed, me being one of them, so with so much effort and so much input I think it's going to be a success. If it's a failure, it's because people aren't that interested, they don't want to support it and so it will be time for it to close.

There was one bloke at the council meeting when they decided to keep the Stag open...by the way there wasn't anyone from the Chronicle at that meeting.

IR: I'm not printing that. Which meeting was that?

CB: It was the final meeting.

IR: The final one? Hmm, I'll look into that.

CB: Yeah, there wasn't anyone there. There was one councillor who stood up and said, what was he saying, what was he saying, I've got to think of it because I thought it was absolutely right …

IR: You could have read about it if we had reported it.

CB: Yeah, it was 'Use it or lose it'.

IR: Yeah. We reported that.

CB: It's because I said it. No it was 'Use it or lose it' and I think that's absolutely perfect. If you want the Stag and you want it to stay, but you don't use it then, you know, you can't hold your hand up and be upset if it is pulled down eventually.

IR: There's no point in bleating when it's gone.

CB: No, exactly you have to use it. Get your feet across the floor and buy the tickets, and the ticket prices are reasonable now and it's a lovely stage, it's a really comfortable theatre. They've even now got one of those sweet counters that you see in all the big Odeons and they've got a popcorn machine.

IR: This is going to sound really silly, but popcorn is essential for a cinema.

CB: And it's a third of the price, at the Stag. It's a £1 for a great big bag full, and you go to the one in Tunbridge Wells in the park there and it's £3.60 or something for the same size.

IR: The town council should pay you for the publicity you're giving to the Stag.

CB: Oh no, I really want it to work and it's beneficial to me because we are going to be there with Bullfrog.

IR: One point I will make, and I risk angering you again here. You live in Tonbridge and Malling borough so your taxes aren't paying towards the Stag.

CB: I don't know about that. I go to the Stag so I buy my tickets there. Do you not want me to go because of where I live?

IR: I'm not saying that, no I'm not saying that, I'm just being difficult.

CB: I want people to come to the Stag wherever they live, if they're buying tickets and coming to watch productions then they are supporting the theatre, whether they live in the borough of Sevenoaks or not. Is it a borough?

IR: It's technically a district.

CB: District? Yeah I live just outside don't I.

IR: I think you kind of touched on this, but I'll ask you again to give you a chance to repeat yourself. What plans have you got for youth productions in the Stag? (Question from Anthony Dawson, the Drive, Sevenoaks)

CB: Well, I'm involved in Bullfrog Youth Group and Bullfrog Theatre Productions and our aim is not just to put on youth productions, youth theatre - and it's musical theatre, we don't do plays, we do musical theatre - It's not just that, it's bringing in professional actors to work with the kids, and I don't mean as a tutor or as a coach, I mean working with them, so when we do the Disney double bill at Easter I'm going to be in it, there are going to be other professional actors in it, so the students will actually be working and touring, they will tour for a week in Easter to get a real feel for what being a professional is like, and they'll be working with professional actors.

So it's serious stuff, you can't wave at your Mum and Dad in the audience, this is proper theatre, so the whole kudos I think behind Bullfrog is if children are serious and they do think theatre, musical theatre, might be a option for them, it takes it a step further than just 'let's have an hour of singing, an hour of dancing and an hour of drama'. This is 'put on a production, sometimes in a professional capacity, and get the real feel of what it's like to be a professional'.

Each term we will be working towards a production. Like in the summer, Footloose, probably next Les Mes, before then, we are rehearsing for the Disney double bill, and at Chequer Mead before we do the Stag we are doing High School Musical 2. So it's all different types of shows: Disney is all very childish and lovely and happy, A Chorus Line was very serious, Les Mes is obviously very serious but hugely popular, High School Musical 2 is one definitely for the young teenagers because they adore it and younger than teenagers, and Footloose I think is more probably for the older teenagers because of the fantastic dancing and the singing that's in it. It's a great feelgood, and I can vouch for that because I was in it in the West End.

IR: Children are often really keen to take part in shows, with singing and dancing. Often in such shows the dancing abilities are better developed than the young people's vocal skills; better at dancing than they are singing. What provision do you make for coaching in singing and dancing? (Question from Anthony Dawson, the Drive, Sevenoaks)

CB: I know what he means, all too often the show is produced by a choreographer and so the singing is almost secondary, it doesn't really matter. For me being a singer first and foremost I think is really important, and I also think it's really important that the kids are introduced into harmony so they know how to make up a chord. I won't go into detail because it will be boring, but I think that music is really important, it saved my life at times, you know, when I've been depressed I think music is wonderful and it should be treated, with you know, what am I trying to say, when you are doing a musical theatre or show you need to have as much importance on the music and the dance and the drama within the show, because it makes the whole.

IR: I won't name any because that would just be mean, but I've been to shows where you've got kids and it's all very sweet, they're dancing around and everything, then they sing and you sit there for an hour or so being screeched at by some kids and I don't think it is the case that you can just put kids on stage and in itself that is cute and entertaining, it can be pretty ghastly to be honest.

CB: Sometimes it can be pretty ghastly yes, but sometimes it is cute and entertaining as well, you need a little bit of both I think. But also if the kid wants to sing then they should be allowed to sing, don't hold them back and you can coach.

IR: Simon Cowell would disagree with you there though.

CB: Your voice is a muscle, you can train muscle. You could be the next Mr Universe if you trained your muscles.

IR: Now there's a quote, fantastic!

CB: (Laughing) And if you have a weak singing voice then you can train it to be much better, but you do have to have an ear for music.

IR: Are you going to sing for me now Cheryl?

CB: No, you are talking to Rita Stroud, I told you.

IR: Who is the nicest person in showbusiness? You have met many, many, many hundreds over your time?

CB: Well Roy Castle, Gloria Hunniford, oh there's loads.

There're some really lovely people in this industry. But that's all they are, they are just ordinary people in an extraordinary job, because they are doing something that's in the public eye it doesn't change them, they are still human beings, that's all, I mean, you know, I love being in this business and I've met some really cracking people.

Actually when we were in our early days of Bucks Fizz there was a lot of problems there that we had because of personalities and Chinese whispers and things, I never really got on with Bobby or Jay (Aston), but you don't have to get on with people that you work with, you just work with them don't you, but Jay since then she lives in Tatsfield so she gets the Chronicle probably, she'll get the Westerham one wouldn't she?

IR: Yes.

CB: But Jay and I, after not speaking for 25 years ,we have sorted ourselves out and we are friends now again which is really good. So I would have named Jay as one of those people originally because, you know, I say Chinese whispers, you hear stories and you think 'What did she say that for? Why did she do that?' And then you actually talk to her and she said 'I didn't say or do that'.

IR: You mentioned Gloria again. I Googled you both. Don't look at me like that. Who do you think had more hits when I put in each of your names to Google yesterday?

CB: Gloria.

IR: Really?

CB: Yes.

IR: Gloria had 91,000 hits and you had 711,000 hits.

CB: Shut up.

IR: Honestly. Why is that do you think?

CB: Good grief. That's amazing.

IR: Isn't it.

CB: Who wants to know about me? I find that really bizarre.

IR: You look really chuffed about that.

CB: Mind you it was probably all the same people, keep going back. What do you do if you Google someone? What does that mean?

IR: Just type in Cheryl Baker into Google, that's the number of pages found on the world wide web.

CB: Wow.

IR: And the same for Gloria.

CB: Oh, well I am quite chuffed about that actually.

IR: I suppose you appear more in the media than Gloria does.

CB: Yeah, I suppose I do.

IR: By being as we talked about, outspoken on this, that and the other, you probably get talked about.

CB: Well that's quite good really.

IR: I'm interviewing Gloria soon so I'll ask her the same question.

CB: Oh don't, no!